ECE CEO Biography Podcast

Welcome to ECE biography Sage Wisdom for child care leaders my name is Tony D’Agostino I’m the founder and CEO of Inspire Care 360 in this series of

exclusive podcasts we will meet with tenured and growing leaders in the child care field typically operating medium to

very large Child Care operations from tens of schools to thousands of schools

our incentive is to learn what has been the path and traits that make out

standing leaders join us to glean the sage wisdom from these experienced

individuals now let’s get started with ECE biography Sage Wisdom for child care

leaders on today’s ECE CEO biography Sage Wisdom for the child care

leader we have Kathy Lian the founder and CEO of HINGE Advisors Kathy has a

unique 40 plus year background in the Early Education Business Financial and growth strategy Services after helping a

regional child care brand multiply from five to 125 sites in several different states she started her own Early

Education transaction advisory firm to help others in Early Education business

owners maximize their schools values as well Kathy is a trusted expert in

business growth and financial strategy within the ECE industry she authors

Exchange Magazine’s annual status report for for-profit child care and recently

published the five pillars of Purpose Driven profit a valuable resource for

child care business owners through her book she empowers childcare owners to

build sustainable mission-driven business that thrives longterm she is a

sought-after speaker Kathy shares her insights both at Statewide and National events she also founded the Shift Child

Care leadership conference and if you are in this industry you probably know Kathy, it is a premier 3-day event

designed to equip Early Education professionals with opportunities for growth networking and Industry specific

expertise in 2022 Kathy received a South Carolina

women in business award where she was recognized for her outstanding entrepreneurial leadership and impact in

the Early Education industry her work empowers owners educators and investors

to build financially stable uh businesses while keeping quality education at the heart of Industry

growth Kathy has been featured on numerous webinars and podcasts and

honestly was our very first webinar guest for Inspire Care 360 back in 2018

she’s a regular contributor to Exchange magazine and has also been quoted in the New York Times in

2024 she founded Boost nonprofit that provides financial assistance to

teachers facing personal hardship really looking to give back to the ECE industry

with Boost Kathy combines her professional expertise with her personal mission to uplift those who shape young

minds we are so pleased to have Kathy who has built an amazing business and

following based on her ethics values and Leadership welcome Kathy Ligon. Kathy

welcome how are you today hey Tony I’m doing great I’m so glad to see you thanks for having me oh I’m so

glad to see you it’s always wonderful to see you and I always enjoy seeing your smile where are you today I’m at my home

and my home office actually Greenville South Carolina the hinge team just moved into a new office but um I’m in the home

office uh having a little bit of quiet time to talk to you well that is

wonderful and I greatly appreciate it you guys moved into new offices I know you guys every time you get on stage at

shift which I was just at the most Recon which is just amazing event by the way just love the event um that team keeps

on getting bigger and bigger and bigger yeah uh we’ve been so fortunate to

attract some amazing talent um I’m so honored to work with that team and thank

you for your kind words about our shift event I’m really proud of what the team puts together there and agree that our

guest are so generous with their um contribution of content which I thought

was amazing this year and just the conversations that were had it it was it

was special yeah it really was and it’s exactly right too I know you give a lot

of credit to your team and you do have a really wonderful and responsive team I know for a fact that I was on my way

there and I couldn’t get into the app and I reached out and they were like immediately right there they were like

I’m like you know what don’t you have a whole event you’re trying to manage and not worry about but they’re responding

right away but uh thanks on the podcast and by the way this is sort of for those

of you who are listening this is the you know ECE CEO biography Sage Wisdom for

child care leaders and as we do in this biography pick what we’re doing is we

talk to different leaders within the childcare industry the reason this is a little non-traditional is because we

have Kathy Lian here today Kathy is the founder and CEO of HINGE advisors and as

that she’s not traditionally over Child Care schools who have been our former

you know podcast for the CEOs but one of the things I’ve really enjoyed watching

since I’ve been in this industry since about 2010 I’ve really watched her

Ascension along with her organization not only from a name shift to a different to them the conferences she’s

produced I’ve really watched you develop and Ascend within the industry and demonstrate a leadership position where

people want to be part of what you do and let me start off with that why is

that what is that secret sauce you have why do those are amazingly kind words

Tony um you know I just love this industry and I love the people in it and

it um is my greatest joy and blessing to be able to

create um where I see gaps and what’s needed in the industry so um things you

know things really bug me for quite a while and um as it relates to shift I

realized for years that there wasn’t there are some great conferences out

there there really are and they’re rightly so they’re very focused on operations and and some business and

financial content but I wanted a place that was dedicated 100% to business and

financial content and connections and people who are instrumental in moving

the industry forward in a very positive way and it took a bit we just passed our

seventh event you know and we grew in 200 to a sellout of 500 this year and

we’re going to hold there because we have bigger demand but I like the

connectivity and I like um the the joy

other people feel in contributing positive uh content and forward looking

approaches and it’s just it’s the greatest joy it’s the it’s probably the

funnest project I’ve ever done but um also I take that Approach at Hench that

um I what I like more anything is to connect with other stakeholders in the

industry owners operators Real Estate Investors um private Equity investors

International investors what are people doing what are their desires to

contribute to meaningful programs for children and families so when I hear

that and I feel like there’s a gap in the industry it just it pounds on me

until I get of the pounding and then one day I’d just wake up and say we’re doing

something about this now and you know everything doesn’t work you know we’ve definitely launched things that we’ve

either shifted or we’ve stopped um but we’re constantly trying to listen and

reinvent so that we can support well and that is absolutely wonderful

you know what comes to mind is whenever I talk with you or I see you at events I just see you as a master facilitator and

that of the times bringing people together like-minded people people who

have similar interests and have just a sort of this compulsion to say you know what you’re a good person and you’re a

good person you probably would do well knowing each other and that I think is a real talent sometimes out there well

thank you for that Tony you know um I think soon people will be afraid to say

something Innovative in front of me because as soon as they do I’m in my head going how can I use that person or

that did and then I start saying will you share that at SHI can we do a webinar what about this you know so um

really it is a culmination of learning about what very Progressive people are

doing or thinking about and sharing or creating um and I find it so refreshing

I hear this um at shift a lot from the investment Community who work in other

industries that they never never been in an industry where people are so eager to

share and support and that’s been my experience for my whole 39 years now so

U you know I was in a Atlanta child care company for 17 years before starting

hinge 21 years ago so um it has been uh

one of the reasons I’ve stayed exclusively in this industry is just the

that everyone understands we all get better we all get better and there no

you know there no secrets that are going to harm us if other people know it and they also take advantage of what we’re

doing because we’re all here to support children families and staff and if I

learned something I can share it with someone else people are Overjoyed with that and that is one of those

strong reasons this industry has kept me for my whole career and you know as you

mentioned um for those who are listening out in the audience there Kathy comes by

this rather organically she mentioned it you were 17 years with I think it was called the Sunshine House that’s right

and and uh your last role there I think was a chief operating officer running that organization and you’re are an

accountant by trade is that it yeah Tony so um I’m an old be counter in my soul

so I was in public accounting when I had a four-year-old and a week old right in

the middle of tax season and and you know back in the day we didn’t say I think I’ll take a couple of months off

we came back to work after a couple of weeks and that tax season almost killed

me so I heard that the then five site group that where my children went to

school which was the Sunshine House um needed someone to do their financial work so meaning to be there about 10

minutes I ended up there 17 years and had the honor to go from a financial

role to an operations role and then to a growth role and it was really we grew

that company to around 120 schools in the 17 years I was there so um I had the

ability to figure out what valuations look like to learn what was important to

sellers to learn how to integrate teams to learn how to transition legally and

through licensing and what how to protect people with legal agreements and

um and then I developed what was the beginning of helping other people exit

by starting HINGE and leveraging the relationships I made there for 17 years

so it was a joy and a blessing for me I feel very um honored to be able to have

grown and contributed that that organization but also to have taken

those skills and experience is over to creating hinge when I realized that

there was a big need in the industry for not only someone who could lead

transactions from a people approach but also from a financial approach and and

even beyond that not just lead transactions but to help people really

understand what their financial performance look like what it should look like what it could look like where

were the gaps that would lead them to Greater Financial Health and allow them

the resources to do the mission they got in the industry for so I know this is a

tangent for me Tony you’re gonna be sorry you asked me but I always like to

say that financially thriving and what you got in this business for are not at

odds with each other it sounds like they would be I can Thrive financially or I

can create excellent programs that support teams Children and Families they’re necessary for each other so you

can’t you can’t do one without the other you also can’t do it if you’re not personally thriving so it’s interesting

okay sorry no don’t be sorry this is exactly what we want to talk about matter of fact I’m going on I’m taking

what you’re talking about because you know I own and operate a few schools myself in addition to Inspire Care 360

but but with my schools I’ve oftentimes got into I wouldn’t say arguments I’d say debates with licensers and you know

the licensers will come in to me and they’ll say Kathy they’ll be like you know Tony this is all about the child

this is all about the child and I’ll say no I go you’re wrong and they’re like no no no you don’t understand this is I go

no this is about our teachers these are about our families these are about our administrators these are about our

providers our suppliers and if we’re doing everything right the child becomes amazing and that’s why good approach

It’s The End Result the reason though I talk about this way is because in our industry so many owner and operators

have been intimidated to be you cannot make a profit in this business you shouldn’t be profitable this is God’s

work where this is the work that is just you should feel ethically morally

founded if you do this work without being compensated but candidly we know

you know and I’ve learned from you and your team too which you know have been great lessons that if you don’t pay

yourself you have no way to take care of your team and your team then has no way to take care of those kids so you really

need to set yourself up for that so that’s one of the things I’ve really learned from your style of approach in

this industry so if you could tell me with that because I’m going to hold I’m going to hold you a little tight and not

let you go off on to too many rants here but in your early days what sort of

developed Kathy into this person when you were young when you were young who

were your influences that you sort of gleaned this approach that started to

develop who Kathy was wow good question Tony um you know I

feel like that um first of all if I if I go pre-work

experience my father was a Doctor Who owned his own practice so I always was

fascinated by the notion that you could own a business and early on that’s all I

knew right that you could own a medical practice and so if you would have asked me back then I would have said yeah I’m

GNA be a doctor I’m GNA own this practice um my my father died

unexpectedly when I was young and um not in the business of selling schools was

actually at Sunshine House by that time but we sold his practice so those those

early experiences of seeing how hard he worked for one thing but also the fact

that it was his and it was meaningful it it I noticed that and I

think this is true of the medical and the education community in some respects that people are approaching their

companies from a trade standpoint so they’re a medical professional or they’re an educator and that’s the

background they had but they’re not necessarily business people with with a

ton of Financial Training or a ton of business training and it was it was a

passion for me to figure out how to operate this service-based Mission

driven company with a business approach that

allow both things that thrive at the same time so over time I saw many many many

Physicians lose their practices or struggle in their practices because they

weren’t um able to really focus on the business and financial side of what they

were doing and then that became many many many people with a passion for

children teams and families which is a passion I share um that

struggled personally because this this industry attracts people who will always

put other people first I adore that and I say to them a

lot I feel very passionately about children teens and families and they

have a lot of Advocates what the business owner doesn’t have as much is a

lot of advocates so I’m not trying to be disrespectful of any other stakeholder what I am trying

to do is help business owners understand that it’s necessary okay required that

you thrive personally to do this Mission you can’t be awake in the middle of the

night worried about the payroll in the rent and show up to work the next day

and support literally hundreds of humans the next day you can’t do it it’s not it’s not

humanly possible so it’s a mission that I I gravitated toward early that

combination of mission driven work and the ability to operate it in a way that

drove the mission and what to me what that means is thriving from a business and

financial standpoint so um it it’s a you

know it’s been it’s been the mission that I put on myself and um this industry certainly has made it easy

because you know in 39 years I could count this is this is true this is no

exaggeration I could count on one hand the number of people that I thought

being one of these industries did not have their heart in the right place and

why would you go in anywhere else why would you ever leave I’m never leaving I joke to my team that they’re going to

have to bury me out back because and they also say we’re gonna be Wheeling you out on the stage one day so well I

don’t know about that you seem to have wonderful energy still so ah well thank you but that I think that’s where um you

know that model that I watched and was so fascinated by plus a lot of

opportunity along the way there were there were people who allowed me to

create and try things um to fail and to not um be condemned when I

fail to fail with um the ability to be humble about it and make an adjustment

and move on and and you know I say to my team a lot that you’re to make a

mistake you know and no one is going to Crush you for making a mistake when you

say I’m sorry I made a mistake I mean I’ll do everything I can to make this right I made a mistake and my team says

that to clients you know I back them up on it and not one single person has ever

said oh you’re so you know you’re so terrible I’m never going to work with you again as a matter of fact I think it

it draws them in they feel honored by a person who is was able to just outright

say you know I’m sorry I goofed here’s

what I’m going to do to make it right it’s hard it’s a hard thing for us humans to do um but I’ve never had a

single person pounce on that and condemn a person that made an honest mistake so

that is something that we practice it hinge that’s hard well I think it is

very very hard and you you just gave a lot of different examples of things that I want to visit here one that you

mentioned up front and I do want to get back to mistakes and things that that happens is trying and failing and

thriving but one thing that you started leading into is leadership is lonely it’s a lonely

thing to be in a leadership position even if you have a a fantastic spouse if

you have a fantastic business partner you got great friends it’s sometimes difficult because you

have this stuff going on in your mind all the time of how you would love to see the future as to where you are today

at least that’s what goes on my little Geral wheel up there you know when you

look at that it seemed like you were starting to relate that owners and operators have their own journey and you

saw an opportunity especially like in this industry to be helpful in that

because in this industry seemed other than people in that one hand you know seem to be uh helpful to one another

which I did find very interesting I think it’s become more and more prevalent over the years that people are like hey it’s not me against you it’s us

against the world and we’ve got to figure this out what are your thoughts about the the Journey of a leader in

sort of a lonely world at times yeah it can be a lonely world Tony

it really can um you know I have a couple of thoughts I

um honestly struggled for um the early part of my leadership

Journey especially in aligning with other female

leaders and so largely my mentors were male which is fine they’re fantastic

leaders um for both but I didn’t have a model for that

um and so that took a while um and while

I feel like the male leaders in my early career gave me a lot of

opportunity I didn’t feel like I saw the leadership style that was a fit for me

personally that’s not to say that their style was wrong it just I feel like

every person has to find their unique Style and um mine is very abundance

inclusive grateful Focus I guess are words that I would use if I think about it that um

there’s always enough we put our clients needs first

and frankly I’m not even thinking about what this is going to do for me when I enter into a you know I’m not crazy

about it I do have to have a budget and pay people you know so I’m not saying I’m just complete fly by the wind with

financial performance that’s against what I preach for everyone but once I set the framework for it I’m in the mood

of what does my client need how can I support their dreams how do we rally

around making that happen and if they’re if we’re successful on their behalf then

we also get paid so at in our in our work we don’t get paid until our we

conclude a process for our clients yes I like that level of risk taking that we

take along with the client yeah and and and I and I think that that’s it’s very

admirable where where did this come from with you when from you being a young

girl to the time that you started developing and going through school from

the time you you know graduated or what have you and you got into where did

these influences come from that really sort of

made you the person about abundance inclusivity gratefulness these are yes

they’re traits of leaders but you seem to embrace those at your own level in a

very different way but that is a good question that you

might have just stumped me on Tony because I don’t know I mean you know

it’s an easier way to live let me say that so I will say when I want peace in

my life that if I’m grateful and I have a mentality of abundance for myself my

team my clients when I am inclusive and I share openly and I I don’t I don’t

fight I don’t have the energy for that I mean um I’ll fight for you but I won’t

fight against you it’s just not I just don’t have it in me um and so I don’t

know it’s probably you know I mean it feels like it’s just an easier way for

me to live you know so I don’t know how else to explain that but um how would

you characterize yourself when you were younger when you were in high school who was Kathy in high

school ah um you know I was very responsible I will say that so I had um

you know I grew up um in my high school years with my father and younger sibling

so I had a very responsible role very very young and um I was just you know

running the show can you imagine that um so I also had an opportunity I think a

lot of it’s in my nature if I’m just if I’m just honest that I think I sort of

like to be in charge you know I like to I also like to give other people the

opportunity to create and be successful in whatever way is um their mission you

know but um I think I just have always been um a person even as a young person

who um was a little bit in charge and yeah you know just took care of others

and um learned some hard lessons along the way made a lot of mistakes and um

I’m grateful for all of those I’m grateful for the difficult times and the

times when I started my company and ran out of money and um use credit cards to

buy groceries and you know went to the grocery with a calculator and I got the

$40 a week I left the grocery you know those are good those are good times I

can call on that again I can do it again if I have to well and that’s that’s it’s

impressive you know because there’s one thing like especially if you’re young

and you’re sort of almost thrusted into a role where you have siblings and others you’re like okay we need to rally

the troops this is sort of becoming my role I need to rally the troops that’s that’s one way I could see where you

look at the sort of abundance the inclusivity the you know gratefulness that you have when when you start to

develop in your saying yes you made mistakes and we’ve talked about that a couple times and even we’d had a little pre-con conversation I said I’m G I want

to challenge you on some of those things you know as you started to develop

through your career and let’s talk a little bit first before you got into hinge and you were working for somebody

else right so you’re working in the child care space you know you’ve probably had obviously you elevated

yourself there when you look back on that were there things that you would

change at all in the way that you approach the market knowing what you know now is there things that you would

change different because we have people who are listening in they might have one child care school they might have four

they might be just taking on the risk of going I’m just getting all I’m buying all nine of them you know and I’m I’m

going to the next level you know what were some of the things if you reflect back on those years when you were

helping that school get to the next level what were some of the things that you were doing or that you learn from

later life that you wish you apply that yeah such a great question Tony you know

so I have two answers to that my first quick answer is that I would not have changed my journey because it um even

the crazy stupid stuff that I did were were important in um in my learning so

and and I’m grateful for the hard um experiences I think I would have learned

to trust myself a little bit better um I think that I was swayed by other

people’s management styles at times when I think I probably knew weren’t the best

approach but I didn’t know another approach um also feel like sometimes

true leadership feels soft and one thing that I’ve come to

know is that it’s not at all soft you know um first of all you’re never going

to manage people you you can’t manage human beings they’re they’re humans you

know we can lead them we can take action if things don’t go well but there were

times when I was in positions where other people’s management style was not

congruent with what I felt like was the best approach but I didn’t know any

other way so I would try it out you know I would try out um harsher management approaches that

always backfired always and luckily I had some very good friends and and

employees who called me out on it at the T at the time and would say things like you know what in the world are you doing

right now that’s ridiculous um and and I thank them still

when I see them for their their strong push back but I think I think um the

main thing was trusting myself um trusting that um As I Grew

with teams and with a company that um I

that things were going to work out you know when they were really hard and

something would fall off the table and I would have the middle of the night Panic

I’m talking about when people think they can’t make the payroll and the rent yeah and a contract would go away and I’m 

in my mind again and the next day the phone would ring because of the relationship development so I’ll parlay

that into the second thing so the first thing would be to trust myself and find

learn listen you want to listen to other people’s sites but trust your instincts you’re going to be different from

everybody else um and the second thing is the power of relationship building so

in HINGE’s life you know you heard me say that I parlay hinge based on

relationships with those I knew in the industry as buyers not as clients because our clients are sellers but as

buyers that I knew would treat people in companies well and that’s super important to me um but what I found the

power of relationship building there were two critical times in the company’s

history 2009 and 10 the world died economically um we made almost zero for two years

that was the credit card years um but what I immediately started to do was

invest in relationships I went to see people I showed up I said what do you

need how can I help you do you need some support with learn and and not to be

paid just to go and help people I had to do something I couldn’t do nothing and

my thought was at the end of this I’m going be ready I’m going be ready and at the end of two years it just

exploded the work and really it was um it wasn’t

let’s do her a favor and throw her uh something her way it was connecting dots

between opportunities and listening to people and trying to find solutions for

what uh would make their program stronger and put in that together and

then the second time was Co you know so when Co happened in my head I thought

well here we go again two more years of zero but by that time I had I trained

myself and coached my team to be prepared for two years you know and I hound them with it I’m like are you

ready for a two year shutdown because my people only get paid when we close up too um what we immediately did was

invest in relationships again I knew that we could get people to share their

experiences and that would help other people and I made phone calls and within

the first month of covid we had National CEOs who were navigating the first

school closures jumping on podcast with us to share what they did because they

were calling licensing with what to do and Licensing say we don’t know we don’t

know what to do so they were making on the flag but they were so gracious in

all that they had going on to hop on podcasts and webinars to share what they

were doing to navigate that process and I was so grateful for the ability to do

that and for the past relationship building that men I called a national

CEO on a Saturday Tom Wyatt at Kinder Care and said Tom help people are really

he said what do you want what do you need I’ll be there next week he’s trying to navigate 2,000 schools you know and

so that’s the kind of people that we’re talking about and what actually happened was three months later the investment

World Went weight what is this child care thing that’s keeping us all propped up economically you know maybe we are

interested in this and the phone began to ring like crazy so that all worked

out fine but I think as counter intuitive what I’m about to say but this would be my second thing that make

investments when you don’t have enough and make those investments in

relationships because every single business decision is a relationship decision everyone yeah everyone nobody

does business with people they don’t feel strongly about no and you just you

know and it’s funny because both statements are really about trust right

first one is to trust your gut trust yourself the second one is you’re basically building trust with others

because people want to work with people who they like who they feel like are the

same moral or ethical values or the ones who will stand behind what they do and I

know when I first met you you were probably the very first person we had on a webinar way back when about five years

ago and remember even in those conversations we talked about you know

hey could we refer stuff to each other and they’re like yeah whatever I do you know no worries you know I’m happy to do

it and I’m not ha you know I don’t need anything for it and it was very much of a sort of an outpouring type of

relationship and I think when you look at the leaders out there something that I have learned you know over the past

several years too is you have to look sometimes at what it means to be paid

for something some people are so financially focused that they feel it’s always a dollar sign and I’m a big

believer like I always I get in uh conversations with my fiance or whatever sometimes and I’m like Hey listen we

don’t have to be even Stephen everything does not have to be even Stephen in other words because I do something nice

for you does not mean that I’m expecting something back and I would say that you’re you really um you represent a

very similar model of because I do something nice for you doesn’t mean that you have to do something nice for me but

it’s a nice Community this is the community that I want to build around me so I think the way that you look at

trust is a way that can make a big impact on ascending leaders these days

is the fact of where is their trust lying in themselves is the trust do they

have the trust of their teams do they have the trust of the people they want to do business with any additional

thoughts on that yeah well thank you for your very kind words and um interesting

um conversation around that I I really have never thought that hard about it so

interesting that you called that to my attention so I’ve had a practice forever

of not being paid to um bring other people business not

that I don’t want them to be successful I just don’t want to be paid for it because I’m immediately not

objective right so Tony if I believe in what you do and I feel great about it

I’m telling the world anyway you know because I’m constantly sharing resources

and people the second that I have an economic Advantage for it my objectivity

is gone and I don’t know that feels heavy to me like I said I like a simple

Carefree life you know so um feels burdensome to do but um but yeah that

that’s a a practice that I’ve been very um I feel very strongly about I also

don’t compromise the shift content um with we do have sponsors for our event

we’re grateful for that I don’t compromise the content and drive it towards sponsors I am grateful for them

and love that they want to make a contribution and I develop content

completely independently that I want to bring the very best information to

people and not make it sponsorship driven so those are just a couple of

examples of things that well number one make my life more peaceful and easier

but also just keep the Integrity that when I say to somebody you need to call

Tony D’Agostino they’ll know that I’m sincere is because

I believe in Tony well right so exactly well and it is you know and by the way

your friendship has been always well appreciated there too because what you’re saying is very genuine so let me

ask you this a little bit away from where we were talking about sort of the trust of yourself your God the trust of

building those foundational relationships and the networking you know as we talk to others

out who are leaders who are trying to you know it’s a it’s a tough time I think still um for childcare owners you

know we know from talking to a number of them that some of them are struggling to make payroll right now others seem to be

flourishing and some of them are still struggling and everybody has their own

Journey you know it’s not like we’re all sitting in the middle of Raleigh Durham where things are just blowing up you

know crazy and you know they’re building you know new apartments all over the place you know sometimes we’re in rural

areas that are you know haven’t you know been touched in a long time with a lot of growth when you look at your ideas

about when you developed your organization what to you are sort of the

foundational pillars by the way I’m using that word pillars for a reason in the future but what are the foundational

pillars that you see as um what you

should structure and and build a company on for the future this point FR in your

life when you look at this of building a company what are some of those foundational pillar and are do are you

right saying hinge or what I think um child care business owners should base their I think it’s important that you

experience share for yourself with HINGE but I still think that child care

business owners can relate to it or anybody else who listens to this podcast because I’d rather have you experience

share from yourself as to a perception of what they need unless you’ve had that experience yourself yeah interesting

question Tony um yeah um you know I’ve got one that um

I say so much to my team that I guess I’ve never really thought about it as you know what would be a top pillar but

it comes up so frequently that I’m going to say it um we have a very

strong um policy if you want to call it that that

we always sacrifice money for relationship always it you know if I

believe that um my team has acted in someone’s

very best interest but that person isn’t happy and frankly that doesn’t happen

often because my team are they’re just the they are the kindest most competent

wonderful people but rarely but at times someone will not be happy with

something I don’t need to argue it I don’t need to agree with it I don’t need

you to give me a novel of explanation about it um I want to talk about it and

understand it so we can be better in the future but if there’s something that

trades off money in any way that would compromise a relationship

the money’s got to go you know and I have never been sorry ever ever been

sorry that um when we’ve made a decision to accept less money for something give

money back do something that had a money effect if it preserved a relationship

I’ve never never been sorry that’s a wonderful you know piece

that people struggle with you know they’re looking at whether it be Child Care owners like myself you know you

have a family who hasn’t paid in a long time or whatever and it’s a there’s a

lot of money at stake or there could be a decent amount and then you’re like do I put good money after bad to pursue

that or how do I want to handle this so you know what I hear you saying is

observing the relationships are more Paramount to you not saying that you shouldn’t pursue that but saying that

you know it’s more Paramount for you that the relationship is really takes topnotch as to just the dollar the

almighty dollar yeah so I was a little bit of a different scenario because I

feel strongly that when services are delivered a um and there’s no problem

that somebody should pay you for that right Tony if your teachers are there 14

hours a day and they’re working so so hard and you know you are trying to

create amazing things for families and children you you should get paid for

that that should not be ignored right but if someone comes to you and they’re unhappy about something and they didn’t

understand a policy and you know I’m just saying that if I were to think

about it purely economically I don’t think you can ever draw the DOT line directly from I I you

know gave on this money piece and it came to me somehow although I really do

believe that it does because relationship decisions for every

business are communicated constantly right but if someone’s not

happy with for any reason again I don’t have to understand it fully although I

ask I don’t have to agree with with it you know I um I always sacrifice money

for a relationship so that’s that’s a pillar that we live by um one of the

pillars I want to ask you about that you do very well and you’ve talked heavily about how the quality level of your team

and how kind they are you know I’ve noticed over my years that when you’re a

leader your team really is everything you know when it comes for you you’ve been building a team up I would say

since the time I’ve known you probably since the early 2012 time frame on to now you grown a

substantial team when you’re looking into teammates to join you what are the

qualities that you’re looking for because I think you’ve done a wonderful job of building a really solid

organization I love that question so much because I say this a lot we can

teach skills I can’t teach a person how to really care about what they’re

doing I you have to come with that fortunately we have both because

our our processes are very highly skilled they require attorneys

transaction advisors Financial analysts diligence managers and highly skilled

marketing teams so they have to be skilled I can help get more skilled but

that comes way after the ability the genuine care for the people they’re

serving I can’t teach them that you know and we talk about a lot but I don’t have

to talk too hard about this because my team it’s in their bones you know

they they care more about meeting their clients

goals than they do about making the money or U being

personally successful they are going to be personally successful and they are

but that just comes naturally when you care more about meeting that other

person’s goals and when you keep that always in front of you you’re fine

you’re gonna be very fine you’ll be more than five so and I think that’s a

wonderful perspective whether owning or operating a child care business or you’re a brokerage business or an auto

part store when you are looking to bring team members on are there things that

you look at in particular you know because let’s really let’s just dig into

that just a little bit it’s a tough game recruiting is a tough tough game because

it is who your organization becomes at your people and are there C things that

you know obviously you’re looking for caring and being genuine and authentic are there any other things you’re

looking for when you’re saying I want to bring people on board with me to be part of this journey well look hiring is

tough isn’t it Tony I mean it’s everyone’s most difficult challenge

right now and it’s really hard to assess people in an interview process no matter

how good you do you know no matter how much you spend with them no no matter how well you do so it doesn’t always

work out for us right and sometimes we have to lovingly invite people to take

what they learned with us and go and be um successful somewhere else but I tell

you what has been the most successful thing for us and our our work is

unique of course but we have several team members who we worked with on the

other side of the transaction so if we represented the seller they represented

the buyer and let me tell you when you end a very difficult process selling

processes are very challenging they’re very emotional they’re there are a lot

of high level skills that are involved but when you emerge from a transaction

and you love love love the person on the other side whoa is that an amazing person now

I did not steal them for different reason I did say to a seller one time as

soon as I met her CFO who is now one of our financial and I’m so gonna steal

her from you one day and she went used but situations changed she needed

to make a change I called her I said I wasn’t kidding I really need a new anal

and can I talk to Mar and um and she’s

just one of our most valuable employees also another analyst was the um analyst

for a buyer um also one of our diligence managers was uh one of our buyer

diligence managers she wanted to go do her own thing in real estate and Alec on

our team said well Melissa if you ever change your mind called me and you know

about 6 months ago she called and said I don’t know if you were serious or not he

said absolutely we were so we have had the pleasure to work with people and in

a way that is sometimes a big conflict but when that person makes it a

collaborative experience you see the kindness they display to their team and

and person going through this process that’s a person you want to work with

right right um we’ve also had some good experience with um hiring agencies who

have put um highly skilled people in certain areas um in front of us and and

like I said those um those generally work out but there have been on occasion

they haven’t and I don’t know know how

to completely assess people in just a general hiring process I don’t know if

we’re good at it I think we’re just like everyone else we hit we hit it out of the ballpark sometimes and sometimes we

don’t um sometimes we’re like everyone else when we keep trying and trying and

trying if somebody’s not a good fit and maybe we we change some tasks to see if

it’s a better fit we all try really hard because we love people and sometimes um

it’s a hard thing and you just have to make a change it’s not fair to them and it’s not fair to the rest of the team so

we definitely have those experiences for but for us working in um relationships

with people where we have the advantage to see their performance in advance has

been huge yeah well that that is some wonderful thoughts on that you know

because I know as you know a lot of things associated with recruiting and recruiting good people has been a

challenge for many people across the board Believe It or Not we’ve already gone through an hour okay yeah well

you’re fine to talk to Tiny yeah well Hey listen I could go on for a long while with you because I have so many

other things I want to ask you but I we’re gonna give people just a few more minutes because I do want to ask you

know if you were to give some guidance and this one I will leave for mainly

friends who are child care owner and operators because that’s what this mainly this podcast is you know set up

for but if you were to give them any thoughts that you’ve had the experiences

yourself and you’re like you know what if I could convey some just top considerations of how they should

possibly think especially if they’re struggling a bit especially if they’re going through transitional times where

you know we all know that the future is no guarantee for anything and sometimes that future scares us I’m sure you get

phone calls where someone is just like I just got to sell this business I can’t take it anymore you know and it’s tough

because they’re having a very emotional feeling sometimes it’s not a factual thing that’s happening but it’s

emotional what is some of the guidance that you would give to our audience when it comes to operating schools and the

way to maybe think about your business as it continues to grow and operate yeah um really good question

Tony you know I feel like the Early Education environment is so conducive to

support from other owners today much more so than ever before there are

fantastic groups where you can get aligned with other owners who are

willing to talk to you anytime to sh their successes to cheer you on to be

your accountability partner and the simplest place to start with that is if

your state has a child care Association or event you can get involved in if

they’re lobbying get involved in that um get to know the national organizations

that do good events consider a um Mastermind group or a mentoring program

just put yourself out there and get to know people you’re going to be surprised

immediately how similar everyone is how the challenges are Universal no matter

the size of the school the type of uh family you serve the type of

curriculum um everyone’s having the same challenges to varying degrees and like

we said at the very beginning I don’t know any other Industries where

people are more gracious and giving about support um it we also said that you know

for me early on in my career it was difficult to find women leaders and that

is not the case anymore there are some Rockstar women leaders and not just in

this industry but all over this industry they will encourage you they will

challenge you they will push you um so that’s and you know there’s also a limit

that you know you mentioned in the very beginning too as lonely world out there you know when you’re the leader and it

is because I have to catch myself sometimes maybe um needing to not share

some of my challenges with my team I’m not trying to keep anything from them

sometimes it’s just not appropriate right but you sounding board sometimes I don’t want to think about how those

words are coming out you know they just need to come out and there’s also a limit to how much my poor husband can

take so um I would find of people in the industry who have been where you are

surround yourself with people smarter than you who have done the thing and um

you don’t be afraid to ask just you know wherever you go uh find your your people

and surround yourself with them and make it happen if you if you have to be the one that makes it happen make it happen

yeah and you know even and that reminds me too from what you’re saying you know even if it’s not within the industry

there’s groups like you know entrepreneur organization or vistage or

YPO or there’s a number of groups out there that you know you can get that

additional support from but you’re exactly right there are so many things people are it’s funny when I started in

our community in Western New York you know I I had talked to a couple owners

early on and they’re very close to the best with every idea you know and then as I saw some people coming in I gave

advice to people I said come on in I go I’ll share everything I can with you to try to help you out they’re now some of

my best friends they are people that we get on the phone and like hey I have this deal going on we’re trying to have

you know uh Serv as a company for child care have you done it before yeah you hear some information and and we’re

doing all that now and so I think your advice and your guidance is very good

for supportiveness there so with just the couple minutes we have left here

tell me a little bit about the book Five Pillars Purpose Driven profit it’s a

book I received that was at the conference and this is not a setup but you just literally release this book I

think it’s wonderful and what also does it support oh yeah thank you for asking

this my favorite question so far Tony um so over my 38 years I have developed

very specific benchmarks for Early Education business

owners and I’m studying it constantly um I feel like the hinge team’s in a unique

position that we see financial performance across the industry we’re on the phone all day long talking to people

about what they’re doing how’s it looking and where you know and so we

built five main components of a thriving Early

Education business so it’s the Cornerstone of our teaching and for years I’ve thought I should really put

this in a book this one of those things I mentioned Tony that gets in my head and it it’s like a gat that leave me

alone um at the same time I’ve had this very powerful Gat on the other side

wanting to support teachers in personal home and Health financial crisis because

I see these crisis situations constantly and it breaks my

heart for these people who are giving everything they’re in a they’re in a

position where they want to serve and they’re doing amazing things with children and one little event can be the

thing that kicks them out of the industry or Worse kicks them out of their home or their car their utilities

are off and I had a vision to start a nonprofit it is called boost you can

find it online at Boost bye.org I think uh we launched in July we have

given about $200,000 in Grants to about 120 teachers

in six months that’s fantastic we’re ramping up our fundraising efforts now

so we can get bigger Circle back around to the only thing that made me put all that time

into writing a book which is a lot more work than people tell you by the way is

all the proceeds of the book go to boost straight to boost now I priced the book

up the book cost $50 and it’s not because I think I’m all great and wonderful it’s because well boost

well you can get it on Amazon could we uh do this could we attach a link in the

Amazon link to this podcast as well is if someone would like to donate to boost

would you mind if we attach that to this podcast are you kidding me that would be my greatest joy Tony thank you so much

for that it has boost has been one of the greatest joys of my life

I’ve got an amazing team running boo constantly we’re about to uh launch boo

support which is education and resources um you know we we’re right now

we’re fishing a lot of people out of the river after they fall in what I really want us to do is go up River and find

out where they’re falling in and keep that from happening so we’re constantly thinking about how do we help people

learn we don’t do a good job in this country of teaching people how to how to support

themselves how to how to navigate Banks and insurance and medical bills and you

know that’s hard stuff and so we’re trying to support a fragile Community

with more than just money we want to give you money we want you to be out of Crisis but we want to help you learn to

be financially thriving as an individual just like we want business owners so I

will also get off on that tangent t for bringing that up thank you the last

thing I will give you there because of what you just mentioned about Learning and Development that’s my world um if I

can I’ll be happy to donate any of our platform server if people want to create

content specifically for Boost and put it on our platform and then deliver it I

will donate that to this cause work we

about offline but that’s something I’d be more than happy to do and we have ways and tools for them to package and

put their own content on there but if it’s specifically for this initiative I’m super supportive of that so I’d be

happy to do that thank you so much we are so happy for any um support we get

we’re just happy for the airway for people to understand um how we need to support

our Early Education team and also um if they feel called to donate to boo we

will we are good stewards of our money we’re we’re fanatical about it so it

will all go straight to support teachers we also um hinge donates all of the team

and admin expenses so everything that’s donated to boost goes straight to

teachers so we will take care of your investment thank you very much that’s

wonderful well this is probably longest podcast because usually dedicated to an hour and we’ve gone over a little bit

but I want to thank you Kathy and you know you and I will stay on here for a moment or two after this but I want to

thank Kathy for joining me today Kathy has been now I can consider her a longtime friend and uh a person who I

trust in this industry if you haven’t made it to shift or even to her other event called Thrive which she tends to

have in the spring times um they’re just great events you know know all I can say is prepare early because they sell out

quick uh but they’re a great team and if you’re looking for you know the

possibility of succession not just today but maybe succession in you know in the coming future and you want to get

yourself prepared I just know she has wonderful people to talk to and you don’t charge for your conversations you

just have an opportunity to help educate people and tell me if I’m getting that wrong but are not okay so the

preparation years in a perfect world and we love to meet people way before

they’re planning an event so they can be in the best shape possible absolutely and so we’ll also put a link in under

this podcast so you could see a link to get hooked up with hinge and get connected with them if you want to start

planning yourself for your own succession so I’d like to thank Kathy Lian for joining us today uh for ECE CEO

biography Sage Wisdom for child care my name is Tony D’Agostino I’m the

founder and CEO of Inspire Care 360 and of course we’d like to help you out wherever we can whether or not it’s

using our services or anybody else that you’d like to get connected to in the industry thank you very much and we will

see you next time on our podcast have a wonderful day you have been listening to ECE

biography Sage wisdom for child care leaders Thank you very much for

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